Curse

actionjack · Aug 12, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

I would defin Sell Out as a dev company who care more about Profits and getting people to buy their stuff, more than the enjoyment of players who play their game.

With the recent Increase Item Drop Event, the new purchasable character slot, lack of increase storage space despit the overwhealming demands for them... It might look like its the step that A.net is taking.

I don't have too much problem with such pratice, afterall, its a company, with goal of making Profit. Afterall, we still have the freedom of choice to decide to buy or not buy the game or the optional add ons.

But just to get some discussion on this issue, to see what people think.

(Note: Won't say it's A.net's bad, but might be NC soft making the decisions. But for the title, will just combin it all under A.net's name.)

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(from a replied)
However, for GW, selling game doesn't seem to be the pirmary objective.... at first. There is a gradual shift, small enought that is unnoticible by many, but still there. And as wel all know, most people don't like changes.

It is one concern that GW might turn into a game like say Gunbound, free, but loaded with extra charge if you want to become "better". I got no beef with such bussiness model, but with such shift, it is possilbe that Instead of playing for the fun, you start paying for the fun. Instead of giving us the needed or the desire updates, they would dangle it in front of you, while charging the fees for it.

With the online store, the dev gain in more and more power in this. What might they sell next? More Storage slot for $10? Skill Pack to Unlock all your skills for $10? Accesses to a special and easy farming area for $20? 100k of gold for $15? 20 extra attribute points for $5? Will GW be the same as when we first click to play it? What will the future hold?

There is a line between where Devs are gamer-by-heart who want to make us player happy, with the profit as a side reward and means of funding the fun (such good pun), as to Devs who are concerning more about profit margin, monthly earning, shareholder pleasing, who would shape the game not for the more enjoyment of players, but to put more into their pocket. The fun, or the illusion of it, becomes just a marketing lure

Voice your conern if you think so. Or If not, you can always state your reason, and keep on supporting A.net and their fine product.

lyra_song · Aug 12, 2006, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Too late!

CHUIU · Aug 12, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

ANET's giving people what they ask for and you're calling them a sell out for it?

jmj102 · Aug 12, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

What about the materials storage upgrade ?

Sekkira · Aug 12, 2006, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Arenanet would only become a sell out if they weren't trying to sell a product in the first place. Same thing with musicians, they play music because they want to play music, they just happen to get money from it. They sell out when they sign up to a record company and are in it for the money. (which personally I think is a load of hogswash. If you're gonna play an instrument for a living, you can't do it for free. You have to put food on the table somehow)

Eet GnomeSmasher · Aug 12, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Sellout? That terms doesnt mean anything anymore. It's overused by people who for some reason fell out of love with the object of their obsession.

And companies cant always give everything that it's customers ask for. Otherwise how would the company survive without making profits? How can you call a company that still continues it's no monthly fee policy a sellout?

Geezus.

Zakarr · Aug 12, 2006, 07:45 AM // 07:45

You don't have to buy anything from the store if you don't want.

Care about profits? There is no friggin monthly fee. You expect they should give everything for free? Wake up to the real world. Everything costs. Servers are not free, administration is not free, replacement parts are not free, customer support is not free, development is not free and who knows what other expenses Anet has. I'm not familiar with game companies so hard to know every detail but I understand it costs a lot of money.

-Loki- · Aug 12, 2006, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

I would defin Sell Out as a dev company who care more about Profits and getting people to buy their stuff, more than the enjoyment of players who play their game.

They are trying to get people to buy their game. Without people buying guild wars, they aren't making money anymore. Declining sales means NCSoft might get a bit iffy about continuing the franchise. They are doing to keep their company, and the game, afloat. And everything they have done has been what the community has asked for, that's hardly selling out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

With the recent Increase Item Drop Event, the new purchasable character slot, lack of increase storage space despit the overwhealming demands for them... It might look like its the step that A.net is taking.

I don't have too much problem with such pratice, afterall, its a company, with goal of making Profit. Afterall, we still have the freedom of choice to decide to buy or not buy the game or the optional add ons.

People wanted more events. They have given us an event every weekend for the last month or so. People said they would buy character slots, they make an in game store that sells them, for the price most people agreed would be an acceptable price. People wanted more storage space, they gave it to people that bought Factions (that was a bit of a bad move, giving it to only people with Factions, but they still did it). Hell, next time someone does something you ask them, punch them in the face for selling out. I be they'll thank you.

Lawnmower · Aug 12, 2006, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

I would defin Sell Out as a dev company who care more about Profits and getting people to buy their stuff, more than the enjoyment of players who play their game.

With the recent Increase Item Drop Event, the new purchasable character slot, lack of increase storage space despit the overwhealming demands for them... It might look like its the step that A.net is taking.

I don't have too much problem with such pratice, afterall, its a company, with goal of making Profit. Afterall, we still have the freedom of choice to decide to buy or not buy the game or the optional add ons.

But just to get some discussion on this issue, to see what people think.

(Note: Won't say it's A.net's bad, but might be NC soft making the decisions. But for the title, will just combin it all under A.net's name.)

there is nothing wrong with them trying to get every penny out of you. What is wrong with that?
If they wanna introduce a monthly fee - It's their business. I don't see anything wrong in that.

It's funny... Most GW players seem to only get mad at ArenaNet when it effects their economy. sort of like when they found out that factions would "Only" have 2 slots for merged acounts. or when they created a "pay for a slot" feature. I mean... who cares?

Stuff like that is the last thing on my mind.

It's probably a sort of proof that the majority of GW players, only play GW because it does not have a monthly fee and that they are kids, which would explain the rude community and childish discussions.

I don't think ArenaNet is a sellout. But I don't think they are using themselfs to their fulliest potential. They are not aggressive enough. GW is very passive and overlooked. The gaming industry really don't care. They will rather want to talk about the new warcraft patch than the new full priced lame GW expansion.

And that sorts of sucks. ArenaNet is a business and they don't care about anyone or anything other than making money. Frankly we are all just tools. Everything they do, they do to try and make us stay for as long as possible so we will buy more products. ArenaNet is not run by jesus and his minions. Thats the way of the world. And nothing wrong with that.

Clord · Aug 12, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

How wrong you possibly are. Maybe if you play in American server you see server full of kids but I see community pretty mature in English District. Also we play it also because no monthy free with many other reasons because it was marketed so.

RinkXing · Aug 12, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

People never seem to be happy, to be honest it seems like an event causes more stirs than none at all, maybe it would actually be best if there wasn't any, seeing as people always find something to moan about.

They'll provide storage space, they included material storage, surely that is a step in the right direction?!

It was also said that character slots would be coming, and of course that they wouldn't be free, it seems that's caused a bit of problems with players too, dispite hearing about it months ago and constantly asking for it, some people seem to dislike paying more for new character slots. You don't even need to buy character slots anyway, according to the press release thingy for Nightfall we'll getting 1 character slot for the pre-release version and another 2 for the actual game, there's three free (haha) character slots.

It does get a bit tiring and frustrating to see players always complaining about stuff they asked for.

Dave83 · Aug 12, 2006, 10:56 AM // 10:56

I play US and English districts and from my experiences I've found people are about the same im maturity, No real difference imo.

Im happy with Anet, infact from playing WoW and knowing how poor blizzard's quality of service is in comparison im very happy. I dont understand how people get so upset about Anets plans to release a new exp pack so soon, you are'nt being forced to buy it to continue playing what you have. Likewise with extra character slots it's up to you if you want to buy or not.

I get the impression some people are worried that they are choosing quantity over quality, like with new exp packs released they wont pay attention to old areas. Well they did update the old armors and give extra storage space so this does'nt seem to be the case. I can't get my head round things like why they allow so many blatant sweatshop farmers in the game, yes they did ban alot a few months back but it's still all over. Especially european ToA. Whilst they dont always get things right you cant say they are'nt listening to people at least.

lightblade · Aug 12, 2006, 10:58 AM // 10:58

When A.net became part of NCsoft, they already became a sellout. So it doesn't matter now.

And being a sell out is not neccessarily a bad thing.

Pandora's box · Aug 12, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Ehm, what are you talking about? On Prophecy nothing changed. All drops are as low as they always were

Thallandor · Aug 12, 2006, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Before Factions, i would say No.

After Factions and Nightfall aproaching soon, Yes.

A Games Developer team even one as large as blizzard takes a whole year to develop an "expansion" least a "standalone" game for its market makes me wary of the quality of the product Anet trys to sell us.

Like many has said before, wont be rushing in to buy Nightfall like the last time with factions, gonna adopt a wait and see for its content before even going anywhere near it....if i hear its not interesting and the same old things, or worse same or lesser than Factions, the money is still in the wallet no worries.

Inde · Aug 12, 2006, 01:49 PM // 13:49

I'm going to have to agree with Eet Gnomesmasher, sell out is a term that's too frequently used now days and has lost meaning. A companies first objective is to always make money. Every idea, vision and project beings with the thought of making something unique, different and better then what's out there. This vision is what keeps the development or employees going. Once the idea is realized, it's being manufactured or produced the objective then becomes to try to make money for all that hard work. To see that idea/product succeed.

If you've been around since the beta of Guild Wars you saw the idea phase, the dreams of what the product could be and the excitement and hype surrounding it. Now we are in the practical phase, the phase that we need ROI's, quarterly statements are watched, investors and partners are observing the bottom line. It's a hard and fast shift but part of the evolution of any business.

Ideas and dreams are the foundation of any great idea and product, but in the end it takes $$$$ to continue, progress and keep it afloat. Sometimes it comes at a price. Situations and circumstances change for all companies, and while a company might swear that they'll never let the bottom line become the priority, sometimes there's no choice. You do what you have to to keep the product in the market and successful.

actionjack · Aug 12, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

I'm going to have to agree with Eet Gnomesmasher, sell out is a term that's too frequently used now days and has lost meaning. A companies first objective is to always make money. Every idea, vision and project beings with the thought of making something unique, different and better then what's out there. This vision is what keeps the development or employees going. Once the idea is realized, it's being manufactured or produced the objective then becomes to try to make money for all that hard work. To see that idea/product succeed.

If you've been around since the beta of Guild Wars you saw the idea phase, the dreams of what the product could be and the excitement and hype surrounding it. Now we are in the practical phase, the phase that we need ROI's, quarterly statements are watched, investors and partners are observing the bottom line. It's a hard and fast shift but part of the evolution of any business.

Ideas and dreams are the foundation of any great idea and product, but in the end it takes $$$$ to continue, progress and keep it afloat. Sometimes it comes at a price. Situations and circumstances change for all companies, and while a company might swear that they'll never let the bottom line become the priority, sometimes there's no choice. You do what you have to to keep the product in the market and successful.

Yes, I was around since the E3FE. That was the peak of the GW in term of funness.

If you read my 3rd paragraph in the OP, you can see how I feel about company "selling out".

However, for GW, selling game doesn't seem to be the pirmary objective.... at first. There is a gradual shift, small enought that is unnoticible by many, but still there. And as wel all know, most people don't like changes.

It is one concern that GW might turn into a game like say Gunbound, free, but loaded with extra charge if you want to become "better". I got no beef with such bussiness model, but with such shift, it is possilbe that Instead of playing for the fun, you start paying for the fun. Instead of giving us the needed or the desire updates, they would dangle it in front of you, while charging the fees for it.

With the online store, the dev gain in more and more power in this. What might they sell next? More Storage slot for $10? Skill Pack to Unlock all your skills for $10? Accesses to a special and easy farming area for $20? 100k of gold for $15? 20 extra attribute points for $5? Will GW be the same as when we first click to play it? What will the future hold?

Voice your conern if you think so. Or If not, you can always state your reason, and keep on supporting A.net and their fine product.

[DE] · Aug 12, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

A Games Developer team even one as large as blizzard takes a whole year to develop an "expansion" least a "standalone" game for its market makes me wary of the quality of the product Anet trys to sell us.

Anet essentially has 2 development teams. 1 development team works on chapters 1,3,5, etc. While the other works on 2,4,6, etc. This enables each stand-alone/expansion to be worked on for 1 year even though they are released evey 6 months.

EternalTempest · Aug 12, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

I strongly feel NCSoft's drop in sales with AA, and Cities of Hero/Villian has caused Anet to alter it's vision on several things. Anet appears to be doing well.. but they most likely want them to do better.

Inde I do love your post.

As long as anet keeps certain aspects of GuildWars core espcially
A) Green Items
B) NPC Collectors
C) Instant PvP Character (and the ability to permanetly unlock via PvP/Pve)
D) Armor stats cap out, better is nothing more then looks.

They could even sell real money for *special* armor w/ special skin, as long as it doesn't matter have different stats that you can get in game (1.5k crafted, green drop, or collector's armor).

They have changed how the do some things since orginal GW and what they said there vision is.. but I have yet to see there vision of the "core" guildwars change. And anet is still far more in tune with there userbase the any other game I've seen and the do listen to us.

hidden_agenda · Aug 12, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

I am not sure what is the point of all this. Are you complaining about the online store? Well, I happen to think that it's a kewl feature that's long overdue.

Think about it like this: with this new feature, now if they actually Anet has to worry considerably less about dealing with their distributors for special items. Most of us have read about various pre-order and collector edition problems on this forum, so if they actually use the online store for some of that, it could remove alot of headaches for people.

The other thing is (and I am really biased here) that for those of us with multiple accounts, the ability to purchase more character slot is really a boon. Between my wife and myself, we have 5 accounts. Moving stuff between the accounts is a pain so this feature is great.

Now storage, of course, is a whole another issue. I really don't understand why storage is so small. Hell, I don't understand why runes can't stack on each other, or why a stack can only be 250 in size (bit-width?).